A Conversation with Bassist Colin Moulding of XTC

From his home in Swindon England, XTC co-founder and bassist Colin Moudling discusses his new single / video “The Hardest Battle,” his influences, and reflects on his career in one of the most influential bands in the history of rock and roll.

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COLIN MOULDING DISCUSSES THE HARDEST BATTLE AND MORE!

September 2021

From his home in Swindon England, XTC co-founder and bassist Colin Moudling discusses his new single / video “The Hardest Battle,” his influences, and reflects on his career in one of the most influential bands in the history of rock and roll. Features a demo and a demo to a discarded XTC track “Say It” 

TS: Colin, three bass players walk into a Zoom chat, finish the sentence…

CM: I’m afraid there is no answer to that!

DCG: Good answer!

CM: These are uncertain times gentlemen, so we have to make the best of it! I’ve done a few Zoom interviews, I like them – they’re more conversational. 

TS: Let’s start with your new single and video ‘The Hardest Battle.’ It certainly reflects the times were are living in due to the global pandemic.

CM: Yes, it was recorded during the lockdown which happened in the early part of last year. It’s not specifically about Covid or anything really. It’s all about being one’s self. I was looking through a book of ‘pocket positives’ one day; it’s a compilation of sayings and phrases from famous people such as Winston Churchill, Franklin Roosevelt… There was one quote that really spoke to me by American poet E. E. Cummings. 

His phrase reads ‘to be nobody but yourself in a world which is doing its best day and night to make you like everybody else means to fight the hardest battle which any human being can fight and never stop fighting.’ 

My first reaction was ‘wow, there’s a title in there – I can work from that!’ I married that idea to chords and off I went! 

TS: I live in New York City and visit London quite often. Whenever I’m in Time Square or Piccadilly Circus I’m surrounded by advertisements that tell me to be myself – first however, I must buy their product – which is being purchased by the masses!

CM: It strikes me that most people really are not themselves. Eventually, if you are lucky, you get to be one’s self. It is said that ‘man loses his misery when he becomes himself.’ 

DCG: I’m a big fan of Douglas Adams, and I think the best quote that represents where we are now is ‘Don’t Panic!’ (laughter)

CM: Yes, the Hitchhiker’s Guide fellow!  He really created his own unique world, and that’s what you get for being yourself! You can succeed by being yourself, everyone has something to offer. The question in life if ‘finding what is yours.’ 

DCG: In a 1984 world we’re still the product of our education system here in America which is the product of the Industrial Revolution. We are cogs in a wheel and not encouraged to become ourselves. And becoming yourself is fraught with so many difficulties. 

I have a sixteen-year-old daughter and I observe certain things she does where I’m not certain if she is really making up her own mind. As much as teenagers try to be individuals, I can see them grouping themselves in certain ways.  

Coming from the perspective of a father, that E.E. Cummings quote really works!

CM: It’s always easier to run with the pack! In fact, it’s too easy. To go against the grain, which you often have to do to be yourself, is ‘against the norm.’ It’s a fight I think is worth talking about in song.  

TS: I understand that you were harmonically inspired composer Edward Elgar – in particular the piece titled ‘Nimrod’ from Variations On An Original Theme Opus 36 – The Enigma Variations.  How did that come about?

CM: The interesting thing about the life of a songwriter is that you begin by playing other people’s tunes. And like me, you play them very badly, and you get all the chords wrong. From that ‘wrongness’ comes your own tune! (laughter)

So I was noodling with ‘Nimrod’ and I got to a point where I thought ‘I don’t know where he goes there, but I’ll go here!’ And it sounded good to my ears!  

TS: In our generation, we did not have the opportunity to Google the chord changes. However I did Google ‘Nimrod’ and there were different chord changes on different websites – so I guess nobody really knows the chords! (laughter)

DCG: Except perhaps Edgar! (laughter)

CM: Right! 

TS: We noticed that you also included the demo of ‘The Hardest Battle’ in the single package. Back in our classic rock days, fans never got to hear demos! That was for bootlegs. What inspired you to release the working version of the track?

CM: I hand nothing else to put on! (laughter) I asked the record label, Burning Shed, if they were interested in singles – and they were however they inquired ‘what else have you got?’ To which I responded ‘not much.’ But they did like the idea of putting the demo on since it has slightly different lyrics and a bit of a different mood. 

In amongst that I had this other song titled ‘Say It’ which was intended for an XTC album that we were planning in the early 2000s. We disbanded but the song found its way onto a promo disc – which I thought was a waste as it’s a really good song. 

I remembered the version that I rendered before the band did it. There was a feeling I had with it that the band never captured so I included in the EP – but it’s first and foremost a single. 

TS: As bass players we are used to working in groups. However, you cut these tracks all by yourself with no other collaborators. How did you do it?

CM: With difficulty!!! If you haven’t got other players you miss saying to the other fellas ‘here’s how it goes’ and you simply launch into it. I had to do everything piecemeal…keyboards, guitar… I had some equipment problems, and for five months I didn’t play a note until I could get someone here to repair it after lockdown! There was something wrong with the vocal chain, where the volume kept dropping. I now believe it was something to do with the patch bay, these are technical terms that your audience does not want to know, or even care about…

I’m a big analog person anyway. I don’t like to mess with songs much after they are recorded. I leave it to other people to sort out the mess! 

DCG: We know them all too well!

CM: All said, I’m really happy with the song… but to get back to your point, yes it is difficult working alone. For me anyway. Though now we can send files around to other musicians, it’s still not the same as being in the same room. I guess under the circumstances, it’s the next best thing. 

TS: Given the traditional role of a single in the music industry as we knew it, oft times a single by a major artist signaled that an album was in the making. However, in a few instances, major artists, such as The Beatles, The Who, and The Rolling Stones released a song and a B-side which did not appear on a long-player. Is the album format still relevant in our streaming world? 

CM: Yes I think the album format does mean something today. Yet I’ve always like the singles ‘culture’ as well. I grew up with it. The single was an integral part of the 60s. Now that I’m in my 60s the old rules no longer apply. I don’t have a record company waving the big stick at me so I can do what I want. I put this single out for fun, for my own amusement – of course, you can do that when you’re a nutcase like me! I can commit financial suicide! 

(laughter)

I no longer have to torture myself with an album, which takes far too long. Especially the way I make them… when I create a little nugget that I think is really good, I’ll put it out.

XTC made a lot of albums, and we took our time with them. 

TS: XTC had their issues with record labels such as Virgin, likely because you didn’t tour to promote your albums – which is another story. But now, artists are autonomous – they can create, record and distribute sans the traditional record label. Is it the best of times or the worst of times.

CM: Well, I think it’s definitely a ‘different’ time. The rules are being reset. We no longer have to rely on a record company. Unless you have a fan base, it’s tough kicking things off. I was lucky that a lot of the XTC fans came with me and showed interest in what I did outside of the group. 

DCG: Musicians have to be entrepreneurs nowadays, and understand how to market their work.

CM: Yes, and they have to be engineers as well. I’ve gotten to the point where I can record myself reasonably well! But it’s bits and pieces that I’ve picked up over the last ten years really. Today’s working musician has to be a jack-of-all trades. 

TS: You did not study music formally however you were exposed to all different forms of music growing up in Swindon. 

CM: Yes. Top of the Pops was essential. 

[Notes From An Artist Notes: Top of the Pops (TOTP) is a British ‘music chart’ television program. Its golden era is deemed to be from 1964 to 1986. The concept of ‘music chart’ is based on record sales and radio airplay. Nowadays streaming and downloading are taken into consideration. To be a guest on TOTP was considered to be the ultimate achievement of many British artists. Its influence on generations of British youth of said era is incalculable, though now its influence has been greatly diminished by digital media. The show has gone on and off the air several times in the 21st Century.] 

Before all the heavy stuff came in with albums and underground music Top of the Pops was a huge influence on me – again, going back to singles culture. The only other music at the time was what was taught in school such as hymns played on an organ or something like that.   

I always had an ear for melody. And for a single to succeed in those days, it had to be very melodic. Following that, I grew my hair and because interested in ‘underground music.’

[Notes From An Artist Notes: British Underground Music]  

Influenced by 1950s beatnik movement, and eventually coming to fruition in the 1960s – the British ‘underground’ scene was analogous to the American hippie subculture of the same era. Publications, clubs, and boroughs (such as Ladbroke Grove and Notting Hill in London, and the Haight-Ashbury neighborhood in San Francico and Greenwich Village district of New York City) emerged with a decidedly alternative lifestyle ethos which stood in stark contrast to what was considered ‘mainstream’ culture. 

Essential British underground recording artists included Syd Barrett’s Pink Floyd, Soft Machine, Pretty Things, Tyrannosaurus Rex with Marc Bolan, Pink Fairies, and Hawkwind, among others.) 

And ‘underground music’ is what inspired me to be a musician and excel at my instrument.  

TS: The pop single format is a great achievement in and of itself – the artist has to apply song form, melody, a groove, and it all has to be done in the first verse and chorus.

CM: Yes, it a lot harder that it appears! To write a song that really sticks in people’s mind- that’s always been my quest!

TS: Church hymns were a major influence on your songwriting. Talk about that.

CM: I could never figure out why some hymns affected me more than others. Almost to tears. Hymns such as ‘Jerusalem’ and ‘I Vow to Thee My Country’ – they are very moving pieces. So I would analyze them melodically, lyrically and it had a very strong influence on my musical upbringing and my work as a composer. 

TS: You gravitated towards the bass for some reason… 

CM: I was very enamored with Andy Fraser of Free. I loved that band because they were a three-piece with a singer – and they made that relatively small line-up really work for them. I always respected that they left ‘holes’ in the music. 

The first Free long player I purchased was Fire & Water (1970) with the hit single ‘All Right Now.’ Andy does not play in the verses! I marveled at that! Blimey! He was only coming in on the choruses then he plays this little melodic figure in the middle – and I was totally taken with it!

To me they had a sound like an ‘elastic band.’ It wasn’t ‘bassy’ at all, and I wondered if I could do that! He played in all the right places. Andy was my starting point, he got me into the bass.

TS: I spoke with Free drummer Simon Kirke, and Simon said to me, during the sessions for ‘All Right Now’ that the other members kept asking Andy when he was going to come in because he was not playing. But Andy knew what he was doing all along, and by laying out, he made a much, much more powerful statement on the bass. 

CM: Oddly enough, I think a lot of people think there is bass in the verses of that recording due to the bottom end of Paul Kossoff’s guitar! Andy’s option not to play was a true masterstroke. 

DCG: I’m pretty sure that ‘All Right Now’ was one of the first songs on the electric bass that used harmonics as a bass line!

CM: Yes, quite possibly!

TS: Your style is oft compared to Sir Paul McCartney. You like to utilize the entire range of the instrument. Akin to Macca, your playing anchors the tune yet also serves as a countermelodic vehicle. We know now that Paul labored over his bass parts on Beatles albums, often staying late after the sessions had officially ended to work on his tracks. How did you approach recording your bass parts with XTC.

CM: The great thing about working with XTC is that they let me record my bass tracks at the end – after all the other parts were complete! In many cases the vocals were done – and I hadn’t even put the bass on. That gave me the opportunity to ‘leave off’ notes if you know what I mean.

DCG: We do!

CM: When the song sounded full in certain sections, there was no need for me to play there – so what I played counted for more. I defiantly left off passages that I would have played had I recorded at the start with the drummer and the guitar player. 

In Paul McCartney’s case in the beginning, I think it was more the restrictions of four-track technology. And just to have one track at the end to put the bass on was not always possible. But he was able to do that later on as the technology improved. So without knowing it, I was following in Paul’s footsteps!

TS: What were some of your tools of the trade? 

CM: I always preferred short scale basses. Or medium scale at most – for playing live. Just because their easier to throw around! Plus, it was hard for me to sing with a long scale bass. In the studio I favor my 1965 Fender Precision bass.   I used a Wal bass on most of my XTC career. 

DCG: Andy Fraser preferred short scale basses as well, the Gibson EB-3. 

CM: Yes and it had kind of a ‘honking’ sound as well. 

DCG: I caught XTC in the early 1980s at Private’s in New York City. The band sounded great. 

CM: We toured heavily for the first five years of our recording career. Then Andy Partridge got ill from all the travel – nervous exhaustion, stage fright – or call it what you like. He did not feel as though he could carry on. From my own perspective I thought ‘oh dear, touring and playing live is what bands do to promote a record! How are we going to proceed from here?’ 

The good aspects of direction we took was that I got to see my children grow up. They were young at the time. It also gave us more time to write. In most people’s eyes, there is no substitute for playing live. Well, actually there is! As they say, every cloud has a silver lining. 

When you don’t have the live thing to think about, the studio becomes a wider palette. We put in all sorts of elements that we didn’t have to replicate in a live setting, which, at the time, were often technically impossible. To me, that was a real eye-opening positive aspect of our career.

DCG: XTC had a studio career very similar to The Beatles.

TS: Right, I think if The Beatles had to continue on the road, they might not have recorded Sgt. Pepper or Abbey Road the way we know those albums today since there was no way to reproduce all the unique sounds on the concert stage night after night after night. 

CM: Exactly. If you don’t have to play it live, the world is your lobster! (laughter)

TS: Todd Rundgren, Hugh Padgham, John Leckie, Gus Dudgeon, and Steve Lillywhite were among XTC’s esteemed roster of producers, what did you learn from them, how did they influence XTC?

CM: They were all very different individuals, yet they all made significant contributions to our music. Todd was more hands on and composed some very nice string arrangements. Steve was not so hands on, but he was more of a ‘vibe’ individual and a good ‘people’ person – which is also very important. He was good at getting the best performances out of us and inspiring us to go the extra mile to get the performance that was required. 

I think some of the Hugh Padgham and Steve Lillywhite recordings were among our best, and very spirited. We had a great time recording with them, lots of laughs. 

Later on I was quite fond of Skylarking (1986) which Todd produced, I think it’s our best record, though Andy had some problems with it. Todd did a great job on it, it’s one of my favorite XTC albums.

I never imagined I’d be talking about XTC albums thirty years after we made them. In the back of my mind I always thought we were doing good work, and that somewhere along the line, we’d be remembered. You live with that hope that the work you’re doing will survive you. We made records without expectations. 

DCG: Working with Todd, who is an artist and multi-instrumentalist in his own right, you’d expect him to do more with XTC such as string arrangements as opposed to someone such Steve Lillywhite, who is not a performer. 

CM: We can produce our own records, and that’s what we did in conjunction with Steve. Todd definitely played a more active role as producer. He wrestled the reigns from Andy and us, and he was more of an old-fashioned producer in many ways wherein he assumes control on what will go on the record. 

At the time, the record company was getting a bit edgy because we’d made a couple of albums and they were not really successful. And their thought was ‘well the guys have had their shot at producing themselves, and the last two haven’t done all that well…so let’s get an outside producer who’s had success.’ That was a rub with Andy, because he did not want to relinquish control. Our record company paid Todd a fair amount of money for a ‘good record.’ And I feel he succeeded.

TS: That was Todd’s specialty – he produced successful albums for many artists including Meatloaf, Grand Funk Railroad, Hall & Oates, The Tubes, New York Dolls, Bjork…and described his role as a ‘songcraft agitator.’ 

CM: Todd has extraordinary musicality and he took our material to greater heights.  No doubt about that.

TS: Didn’t you approach Brian Eno as a producer.

CM: Yes we did, in the early days for our second album. In never happened, but it could have. We had a working relationship with John Leckie at the time and we decided to continue with him. It’s difficult when other possibilities come into the fray. 

TS: And back then we could not have imagined YouTube – all your videos are available to watch anytime, there are a few XTC documentaries along with interviews, live performance clips… your thoughts?

CM: It’s very disconcerting really. (laughter) I’m not proud of all our videos. But they have their purposed. The video I made for my new single ‘The Hardest Battle’ gives the song an extended life. We have a guy dressed up in a George IV costume, he was the ultimate ‘dandy.’ As the song is all about being one’s self – if you are a dandy, be a dandy! 

TS: Your first XTC recordings were at Abbey Road studios, how did four lads from Swindon feel about recording in the hallowed halls of The Beatles.

CM: Yes, that was for our first EP 3D in 1977. I remember us all coming into the reception area in the entrance and there was wall to wall Beatles albums and posters, it was quite overwhelming. 

We went through this ritual of yelling out Swindon street names in the hall - Pinehurst Road! And we proudly proclaimed ‘that’s the first time this name has been used in this room!’ It was a thrill I’ll never forget…