Between The Funeral and The Scream: Early 60s

From David's Notes From The Sixties series,   host David C. Gross recalls a moment in history wherein everything was about to change, but no one knew it at the time. With co-host Tomaso Semioli 

Between The Funeral and The Scream: Early 60s Playlist

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Now, from somewhere in beautiful downtown Burbank, NBC once more tries to prevent.

SPEAKER_03 0:12

Morning. This radio show may be hazardous to the establishment media. You are about to embark on a cultural and intellectual journey steeped in itself. Assistant composers and authors David Seacros and Tommaso Simeone welcome you to know from an artist. Featuring interviews, music, and auditory collections. Together, you will explore artistry that knows the no braids. Tell it just that its quote that sparks your imagination. David and Tomasco know the rules. Don't touch that dial. Buy the ticket. Take the ride. Gideon on the conversation. Idea. Notes from an artist.

SPEAKER_01 0:59

Susie? Yes. Susie Cream Cheese?

unknown 1:03

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:05

That's the voice of your conscience, baby. Uh I just want to check one thing out with you. You don't mind here. What? Susie Cream Cheese. Honey, what's got into you?

SPEAKER_00 1:34

Very interesting. What do you mean, very interesting? It was stupid.

SPEAKER_02 1:43

It was stupid. But it was also very interesting.

SPEAKER_08 1:49

Hi there, nice to be with you. Happy you could stick around. Like to introduce Leg Larry Smith, drums, Sam Spoons, rhythm pole. And Vernon Dudley Bohey No bass guitar. And Neil Inners, piano. Come in, Rodney Slater on the saxophone. With Roger Ruskin's bear on Tematax. I Viv Instances.

SPEAKER_04 2:22

Recording in progress, David. That means we're being recorded now.

SPEAKER_05 2:26

Why are we here?

SPEAKER_04 2:28

What are we doing? We're here because it's another episode of Notes from an Artist. I am your host, Tomazzo Semioli. My co-host is David C. Gross. David, say howdy do.

SPEAKER_05 2:38

Howdy-do. I am a co-host, a co-founder, and a cohort.

SPEAKER_04 2:46

Very cool. Hey, you and I both watched two. Uh we we both watched a very interesting documentary on Paul McCartney called Man on the Run.

SPEAKER_05 2:54

Great, great, great documentary. Everyone out there, see this. I saw it on Amazon, Amazon Prime. Which medium did you use?

SPEAKER_04 3:03

Same, same medium. Now I remember Wings resonated with me much more than your generation. You are of the 60s, I have of the 70s. And I really, you know, I've spoken at length about the uh legacy books, the two legacy books uh on Paul McCartney. And this this documentary complements those books. Of course, the books go deeper into the recording of each album and each single, but you really got to see how Paul McCartney commandeered Wings and what his whole approach was. He wanted to be back in a band again.

SPEAKER_05 3:35

Yes, yes. To your first point, obviously, because you're younger than I, Wings would be closer to you. The reason, for the most part, that Wings wasn't important to me, A, I had really gotten into fusion, but I had been there, done that in the 60s with the Beatles. And truly, of all the Beatles, I think Paul is the one who stuck to the formula more than anyone else.

SPEAKER_04 3:58

Absolutely, he did. But also, you have to give him credit for expanding on the formula. Where Lennon, Harrison, and Starr, and of course Ringo more of a novelty deck than anything, they just pretty much continued doing what they're doing. There was nothing really exciting about John Lennon's solo albums. Yes, he did the experimental stuff with Yoko, which uh I'm not a fan of. I I prefer my album.

SPEAKER_05 4:19

As a matter of fact, I don't know if you know this, Tom, but the government is looking into having Yoko sing in a run, which may actually cause the top of the regime. Regime change.

SPEAKER_04 4:32

So glad I don't pay attention to uh what's considered news in this country. Yes. But um, you know, Lennon, Lennon and Harrison's records were no big deal. I mean, they were okay singer-songwriter albums, and they got more by on the goodwill of the Beatles fans. And I would love to tell this to Paul McCartney. When I was growing up in the 70s, we didn't see Paul McCartney so much as the ex-Beatle, because the Beatles before our time. Yeah, we knew he was in the Beatles, obviously, but to him, he was a contemporary of Led Zeppelin and Deep Purple and yes, and Jeff Rotel and all the other big 70s bands. So we didn't really have that connection with them. We didn't care for George Harrison. We really didn't. Harry Krishna, Harry Krishna, not interested. John Lynon singing about Yoko, no interest in that. Those records sold to ex-Beatle fans. Ringo, everybody liked Ringo, but he was a novelty act, right? You bought a single, and that was it. Ringo was not someone that was taken seriously.

SPEAKER_05 5:25

But you know what else, Tom? What's that? You were part of the generation that had seen Cream Break Up, turn into blind face.

SPEAKER_04 5:33

Not not no. That's before my time. I didn't know.

SPEAKER_05 5:36

No, but what I'm trying to Let me finish. What you started seeing were groups that had splintered and formed other groups. So consequently, being a Beatle and joining another group was no big deal at that point, if you know what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_04 5:50

Yeah. Now, to me, you know, like Eric Clapton, I knew Eric Clapton from I Shot the Sheriff at Ocean Boulevard. I didn't know who Cream was. Yeah, I kind of knew. My friends who had older brothers all had cream records, but I didn't care about them. Didn't know who Derek and the Dominoes were or Blind Faith, none of that stuff. Right. Didn't resonate.

SPEAKER_05 6:07

But your generation was closer to people having left their original bands going into other.

SPEAKER_04 6:12

Of course, yeah. Well, well into it. Well into it. What was very interesting about this Man on the Run, I consequently read uh Denny Sywell's book, which just came out to capitalize, obviously, on this new documentary. And of course, I encourage all of our listeners to go back and listen to our Denny Sywell interview on the 50th anniversary of Rand, which was a couple of years ago. But one of the things that struck me as interesting is that talk about John Lennon and Paul McCartney, both of them teamed up with wives who really didn't have much musical talent per se. Artistic talent, yes, but musical talent, no. And one of the things that Denny Sywell says in the book, and Gary Van Syok, who I interviewed on Know Your Bass Player, said something similar about John Lennon. He says, as Paul McCartney, he says, I we ne we in all the years I was in Wings, and I guess he was in Wings soon after years, he only saw Paul without Linda once. I think it was after a session, and they all went to a bar somewhere and they just had a few beers, just the guys in the band. And he says, Paul was one of the guys. He was telling debatrous stories about the Beatles and dirty jokes and all that stuff, but he said, every moment I spent with Paul in Wings, Linda was there hovering over him with her arm around him, his arm around her. Linda didn't allow any women in the studio. If there was a women assistant engineer or any women on the premises, they had to go. Paul was not to be around any women whatsoever.

SPEAKER_05 7:32

But what do you think that says?

SPEAKER_04 7:33

Well, she was obviously she was afraid of losing him, I guess, or just controlling him. She must have been a very controlling woman. Same thing with Yoko, and Gary Van Sy told me this. He says, John, when when Yoko wasn't around, John was one of the guys. Talking shit, telling jokes, life of the party. As soon as Yoko walked in the room, he shut up. I like my cigar too, but I take it out sometimes.

SPEAKER_05 7:53

I think all married men have a similar opinion.

SPEAKER_04 7:55

No, not my marriages. Notice I said marriages. But it's very interesting that these two great songwriters were shielded or had their wives as crutches. One of the things that also struck me interesting is that it's not until John Lennon dies that Paul McCartney really becomes Paul McCartney. He had wings up until John passed away. Obviously, the Japan bust was a big deal. But once John was gone and there was no chance ever of the Beatles reuniting, he finally recorded under the name Paul McCartney for the rest of his career. And that's that's what he he no longer needed a band as sort of his his crutch or his his comfort zone. So that's very, very fascinating. Of course, in the books, in the legacy books and Cywell's book, and as well as you see in the uh Man on the Run documentary, that Paul, even though he wanted it as a band, he called all the shots. He told everybody.

SPEAKER_05 8:43

Of course he did. He wrote all the songs.

SPEAKER_04 8:45

Well, still, it's that's not a band. A band is when the guitar player comes up. Is it ever? Yes, I've been in bands where you you the bass player and the guitar player and the drummer come up with contributions to the song.

SPEAKER_05 8:56

Well, but but no, no, no, you're missing my point. The point is, in a band like Wings, it's still Paul McCartney's band. He writes all the songs. So that could be a holdover from what we saw in the Let It Be extended version.

SPEAKER_04 9:09

But Paul, I mean, Henry McCullough was very frustrated, and Jimmy McCullough was frustrated because they didn't get to play their own solos. They had to play the solo that Paul wrote out for them. And even in concert, which is one of the reasons why I've never found a Paul McCartney concert particularly exciting. I mean, it's nice to see a Beatle and all that, but they just played the record on stage. And they were like the Eagles do. Right. A lot of bands do that. There was no improvisation, there was no different arrangements. It was like you just you got the record.

SPEAKER_05 9:36

And talking about Yoko and Linda, what year did Paul's mother die?

SPEAKER_04 9:40

Paul was 14, so if he was born in 42.

SPEAKER_05 9:44

What year did John Lennon's mother die?

SPEAKER_04 9:46

I think he was around close to the same age. I mean, John was born in 40, okay.

SPEAKER_05 9:51

You could really make a case that they were mother deficient, and that could have more to do with it than anything else.

SPEAKER_04 9:59

Oh, it's it's it's rife for a psychologist's analysis. Um but it's very it's it's I don't play one on TV. I don't play one on TV. When I saw Paul McCartney for the first time was in 1989, and they had Wick's Wickens in the band, and Linda was there obviously, but it was, you know, Wicks did the heavy lifting.

SPEAKER_05 10:17

But I must tell you, one of the interesting things about the documentary that truly hurt me was how mean they were to Linda. Meaning the fans, critics, the journalists. I thought that was really a bit much. I mean, she didn't carry the same weight that the um hatred for Yoko did, but she was slam nonetheless.

SPEAKER_04 10:39

Interesting that both Beatlewives, John and Yoko and Paul and Linda, the women were were pillared. And I, you know, they weren't musicians, but still.

SPEAKER_05 10:48

What I think was also interesting is if you go into the background of both these women, Yoko was an important component in the Fluxus movement back in the early 60s. I think a lot of the Loft musicians and Loft artists would not have happened without Yoko and Fluxus. So she was pretty much a force to be reckoned with on her own.

SPEAKER_04 11:12

Exactly, but not in a rock, not in a John Lennon rock and roll pop band. Right.

SPEAKER_05 11:16

And the same for Linda. And I have rare photos and rare magazine pictures of artists that Linda shot. She was really a great photographer. They were just, I guess pillard is a great way to put it, because they were getting in the way, so to speak. But at the same time, I think some of John's interesting experiments would never have occurred without Yoko. And I think some of Paul's experiments would not have happened without Yoko either.

SPEAKER_04 11:49

Yes, absolutely. On the bandstand, and it's even intolerable watching Yoko on some of those clips of uh John on the Mike Douglas show, Dick show, Dick Cavage show, when the host asks John a question about the Beatles, and Yoko starts opening her mouth. I mean, she's just intolerable. I won't say anything else other than that. And so be it. So it was. You would you would think that, my gosh, Paul and John and Paul had they really had some collaborators that were up to their level, what would have happened. But who knows? Paul McCartney, he probably would have dictated to whomever was in the band.

SPEAKER_05 12:23

I would think so.

SPEAKER_04 12:24

And I don't think I don't think Lennon was really that terribly inspired. And John was also very into himself. I mean, it was the singer's songwriter here in the 70s, but he just kept singing about himself, himself, himself, himself, himself.

SPEAKER_05 12:36

Well, you know, you can look at it from Sting's perspective. He too was going through therapy, and and a lot of his songs were his therapy. Uh, you can look at um Tears for Fears shout, they were into Primal Screen.

SPEAKER_04 12:49

No, I'm I'm not saying that artists don't write about themselves, but it was John Lennon writing about John Lennon. You can listen to a Sting song or a Tears for Fears song, and it it sort of translates. You know, I don't have the same problems of, you know, John Lennon being hassled by the press. That to me is, you know, not a song I can relate to. Christ You're gonna crucify me and you know, getting married in the rock of Gibraltar. Sorry, John, just wasn't interesting. It wasn't interesting to my generation. Like I said, the only people who bought John Lennon records in the 70s were old Beatles fans and George Harrison records. Nobody gave a rat's ass about Harry Krishna or Harry Potter for that man.

SPEAKER_05 13:25

Harry Potter, and of course Ringo, you know, Ringo's Ringo singles and do you know Ringo had more hit singles than any other The Beatles solo?

SPEAKER_04 13:35

Yeah. Interesting stuff. But you, speaking of the 60s, David, your decade, the 60s, your love affair with the 60s continues. Your latest essay is between the funeral and the scream. So take us back to 1963.

SPEAKER_05 13:50

Okay, so I guess where we left off the last time, a couple few weeks ago, we saw the Beatles on February 9th, 1964. A date which will live in infamy. Would they, as I posed then, would they be as big as they still are if John F. Kennedy was not assassinated? Now, that's the the question to ponder. But what I found, I was at my neighborhood French pastry called Ovens of France. Dennis, who owns the place, and I have become very, very friendly. He loves music. As a matter of fact, Tom, we're gonna have him on the show to talk about his pastries, French music, French film, in the not too distant future. Alright. I told him about the Substack that I'm doing, notes from the 60s, and where I was, and he said, you know what you have to do? And I go, no. You have to read Stephen King's book, 112263. And when I was touring a lot when I was younger, I read a lot of books. And funny as it is, a number of Beatles CDs came out. What was that? 91, 92?

SPEAKER_04 14:57

Well, they got a late start, the Beatles, because their affairs are always in a mess and they had to get approval from all four Beatles. I they yeah, the Beatles CDs didn't start coming out probably to the late 80s.

SPEAKER_05 15:09

So if it was the late 80s, that's when I started reading Stephen King books. And I took a bunch of them on the road and I was reading them while I was listening to poorly recorded Beatles records. Because they sounded terrible.

SPEAKER_04 15:23

First edition of the Beatles CDs were horror show.

SPEAKER_05 15:25

But the thing about Stephen King, his writing can't put the book down because the way he sets everything up is what's coming up next? What's the next thing? I mean, if you look at it, the protagonist is either a car, a Saint Bernard, or what have you, a kinetic girl named Carrie, but it's getting to the point. And I think he writes great books. Yeah, I picked up this 1200-page book on the Kennedy assassination, and I got through it in five days. I couldn't put the damn thing down. The premise is what would happen if there was a time tunnel and you could go back and not have John F. Kennedy assassinated if you can prevent that. It really ties in. It would be great to have Stephen King on the show and ask him, would the Beatles have been big? What would have happened if your time tunnel were?

SPEAKER_04 16:13

What are some of the things he addresses in his time tunnel?

SPEAKER_05 16:16

Well, the first is he seems to believe that it was a lone gunman. Gotcha. Okay? That's part of the premise of that book. He backs up a lot of that. Lee Harvey Oswald was a Marine. And after his service, he defected to Russia.

SPEAKER_04 16:32

So we've been told.

SPEAKER_05 16:33

Right. Keep that in in mind as we go through the story.

SPEAKER_04 16:37

And why wouldn't they why would they lie to us, David?

SPEAKER_05 16:40

Why? Why lie to us? I mean, let's take a recent. Why are oil prices up so high when we're supposed to have more than double the oil? Oh, don't get me started.

SPEAKER_10 16:52

I've signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. We begin bombing in five minutes.

SPEAKER_05 16:58

Don't get started.

SPEAKER_04 16:59

Get back to Stephen. I don't want to get investigated, King.

SPEAKER_05 17:05

Right. And he prefaced how this was even more possible. And I never looked this up. Hopefully our listener will look this up. But there was a general named Edwin Walker. I didn't even notice. I never Googled him. But apparently, someone took a shot at him about nine months before. And so King is trying to tie that in. So obviously, the book ends before the Beatles come to America.

SPEAKER_04 17:29

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 17:29

It just was just kind of synchronistic for me to have this book along with my thought. And let's look at it this way: The Beatles wore these great Carnaby Street suits. Even on their first appearance, they looked different outside of the hair, of course. They looked different than any other group that we had seen up to that point. Except maybe, oddly enough, the crickets. Because the crickets were a guitar band. Right. So we have that. The next group that appeared on Ed Sullivan after the three weeks of the Beatles was whom?

SPEAKER_04 18:00

Rolling Stones?

SPEAKER_05 18:01

Nope. The Animal. Janew ignorant slut. The Dave Clark 5.

SPEAKER_04 18:04

Oh, the Dave Clark 5, okay. Before.

SPEAKER_05 18:06

Alright, so look at the fashion that they had. And of course the Beatles made fun of that in the Hard Days Night when the uh the talent of God. Yeah, and George goes, I'd be I wouldn't be caught dead in that after he showed him the Dave Clark 5. I thought that was good fun. So we're in fashion at that point. Then the Beatles do a film that is actually quite funny. Pop art is starting. Would all of that have made the difference it made? No, I don't think so.

SPEAKER_04 18:33

I I absolutely not. Kennedy was the icon of of the youth culture. As you said, people wore their hair like him. They looked up to Jackie, who really Jackie Onassis was quite young at the time. So that was Camelot. You lived through all that Camelot stuff.

SPEAKER_05 18:48

Right. And they're trying to pull it out again, by the way.

SPEAKER_04 18:53

Good luck to that. But I think, yes, I think had Kennedy lived, the Beatles, they would have been popular, but there would not have been Beatlemania. And not to that extent. And who knows, maybe culture would have been more conservative. Maybe some of the pop art and the Andy Warholes might have stayed underground because Kennedy sucked a lot of air out of the room. Out of the culture room. You know, everything he did and every word he said people hung on. So he might have yeah, it would have been a very, very different 60s. It's interesting, I never really had interest in the 60s until the 1980s, and of course, nostalgia runs the 20-year cycle. So in the 60s, in the 80s, the 60s kind of came back into vogue. I did see The Monkeys, so that was very cool. I saw the Jefferson Airplane reunion. I saw Bob Weir, but I had seen The Grateful Dead in the 70s. But he was still he was doing something new and cool with Bobby in the Midnight. Grateful Dead had a hit video on MTV, which was cool. Paul and Ringo did their um their tours. I saw them on their uh you know Paul on the 89 tour and then Ringo on the 89 tour. Amazing within a few weeks of each other. Uh the Stones did their last tour with Bill Wine, and that set list was very 60s focused. I saw the Who reunion tour, one of their first reunion tours in '89, and that was interesting that they went and did deep tracks. They didn't do all the big hits. I saw the Kinks in the 80s when they were arena rock stars with all the Superman and all their disco hits and things. I did get to see Tina Turner, who was an icon of the 60s. And I I did see the 80s version of King Crimson, but they seem to always every decade they seem to do something new and different. So they really weren't a 60s band. But other than that, yeah, the 60s to me are almost kind of like the roaring twenties when you look back on it, because things are so very, very much different.

SPEAKER_05 20:42

Yes, but from my point of view, what, seven years in the 50s, I I listened to a lot of music that was going on back then. So when the Beatles came about, that was a completely different thing. If you look at how many of the bands of the 60s were they were they were changing the way music was recorded. They were changing how songs were actually constructed. I I you can go from all the great stuff that the Beatles did, and it's unfortunate because we're on an internet radio show that we can only play four tunes of the Beatles, and this is gonna be an interesting set list, trust me on that. And once again, it won't be the hits, that's for damn sure. But think about in the same decade, you have the Beatles, the Stones, and they were completely different from one another. And as much as I don't want to talk about them because of the illustrious lead singer, Jeff Rotel was doing something completely different.

SPEAKER_04 21:35

And they continued in the 70s to do. I know you don't care for the prog rock, Jethro Tell, but that was they were they were a major arena band from Gossip.

SPEAKER_05 21:44

Yes. Well, Aqualung just put them at the top.

SPEAKER_04 21:47

And they continued. I mean, yes, Aqua Lung was the one that put them there, but they stayed there all through with War Child and Too Old to Rock and Roll and all the other records they did. Uh Passion Play, Thick as a Brick.

SPEAKER_05 21:57

But there'd be no seventies without. Not the sixties.

SPEAKER_04 22:02

Well, of course it's chronological. But I I my view of things is that every decade, every generation builds upon the previous generation. When people ask me when was the best generation of music, I always say right now.

unknown 22:14

I want the truth!

SPEAKER_04 22:15

You can't handle the truth. And I go, when then when do you think the next best generation is gonna be? And I go, tomorrow and the next day. Uh I see it that way. I see that what happened in the 70s, 80s, 90s, double zeros builds upon that which came before.

SPEAKER_05 22:28

I don't disagree with that. But so much of where rock music is today, you can trace it back to the 50s. Really?

SPEAKER_04 22:35

And you're right about the technological advances. I mean, it's amazing to listen to a record, a Beatles record, since we're talking about the Beatles, that could have been recorded today. Revolver doesn't sound dated. It's not like listening to Elvis and Hound Dog or Little Richard, and you listen to the records and they sound antiquated. They sound tinny, they weren't recorded in modern recording. But starting even with Please Please Me and and with the Beatles, man, those records sound like they could have been made today. Kudos to the engineers at Abbey Road and of course George Martin. They were not, of course, Dexter Gordon tampered with the American records, which kind of not Dexter Gordon. Not Dexter Gordon. I keep saying Dexter Gordon. Dexter, David Dexter or somebody Dexter. One of those Dexters. And the Beatles records they sound contemporary. And I think that's one of the reasons why the Beatles have such staying power. Because when I was growing up hearing Elvis Presley on the radio, I was like, ah, that old fifty.

SPEAKER_05 23:28

Well, I think another reason the Beatles have stuck is because songwriting is still the answer. Yeah. A good song is a good song. Uh there'd be no Elton John without the Beatles.

SPEAKER_04 23:39

Right, right. Well, there would be no singer-songwriter without the Beatles, really. I mean, Dylan was kind of their contemporary on the folk end. Uh but the Beatles were the first self-contained group.

SPEAKER_05 23:50

There'd be no heavy metal without the Beatles.

SPEAKER_04 23:52

Right, for Helter Skelter.

unknown 23:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 23:56

Who played the guitar on that? Oh, I'm sure that's Paul on there.

SPEAKER_04 23:58

Well, didn't know John is on bass on Helter Skelter. That's right. It's John Lennon on bass, so I guess Paul and George were thrashing it.

SPEAKER_05 24:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 24:06

Interesting stuff. What was the number one song when Kennedy was assassinated? You were mentioning this.

SPEAKER_05 24:12

Wasn't that Frankie Avalon? We have to go back to our other show or read one of my previous essays to remember that. And once again, from that earlier episode we did, I played the Barry and the Tamilane song. I wonder what she's doing. There is no doubt those guys heard the Beatles record and they knew what was coming. And you see, that's the other thing, which is why I don't believe the Beatles would be as big as they were. They were already millionaires. So if they did not do what they did, if they were just another rock band, pop band who um played well together, none of it would have happened. Because they would never have come back. Why bother? We're rich.

SPEAKER_04 24:50

Right, we're a hit in Europe, we'll stay there.

SPEAKER_05 24:52

Yeah. How many of the great bands that sort of missed the boat in America became great stars over there? Hey, day before yesterday was Chris Rhea's birthday. If you said who's Chris Rhea, I wouldn't fault you because he was a brilliant songwriter and a great guitarist, and he was a monster throughout Europe, but no one knew of him here.

SPEAKER_04 25:11

No one knew of him.

SPEAKER_05 25:12

I'm not making it here. I'll just go back to Europe and be a big star.

SPEAKER_04 25:15

Right. One of the things I did uh in the 1990s, I worked for Amplifire magazine. I covered the Brit pop beat, and all these British rock groups came over, and I interviewed most of them Blur, uh Oasis, and um London Suede, and a couple of other bands, the Stereophonics, who were huge there, Catatania. And they come to America, they came to New York, then went to LA, and they did their showcases, and then, oh, we'll become big stars. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. They'd had you had to put in the mileage. And you would read Roger Daltrey's books, you read about the Beatles. The Beatles toured and toured and toured incessantly throughout the United States. And certainly they had the big, you know, the big bang with the Ed Sullivan show, but they put in the work to be the biggest man in the world. As did the Who, as did the Stones. And one of the reasons why a lot of Brit Pop didn't catch on here is those guys didn't get in the trenches. They were big stars already. They had made their money, they had all their accolades. Why were they going to start playing clubs in small sheds in the United States?

SPEAKER_05 26:14

But once again, you have to remember the Beatles' worth work ethic. They were together already eight years. They had been grinding it out in Germany for years. You think about somebody like Paul Weller. How did this guy not become a big star in America? Well, probably the same reason. He didn't work it.

SPEAKER_04 26:30

Interesting. I remember the jam toured hard here. I don't think Style Council, which was the second band, didn't make it here. And then his solo records. It could have been good question. Or just one of those things where he was just too British. We should get him on the show. We should. We should. Well, we've we got close. We had Yolanda Charles, who he said to hold her base lower. So there you go. Football weller. But David, where are we going next after Kennedy's assassination?

SPEAKER_05 26:55

I'm gonna be working on more memories of the 60s. Some of the interesting shows that I attended at the Fillmore, and also some of the shows I attended at Slugs.

SPEAKER_04 27:06

Well, Fillmore, tell me, was it difficult to get how did you get tickets to the Fillmore? Did you actually have to go to the box office?

SPEAKER_05 27:11

Well, I did. I I don't think there was a ticket master back then.

SPEAKER_04 27:14

No, of course not.

SPEAKER_05 27:15

But I also had friends at a couple of the hippie boutiques, and they would sell the tickets there.

SPEAKER_04 27:21

Oh, is that right?

SPEAKER_05 27:22

And they would give the tickets to me.

SPEAKER_04 27:24

Okay, but so still, you so you could get them at boutiques, you could get them sort of through the underground?

SPEAKER_05 27:28

No, not at all. When it was a big show, of course, there were scalpers in front of the film or what would a what would a scalper charge for a tip for a Hendrix? Oh, gosh. I think the sky's the limit. I mean, not the sky that we have today, but probably a hundred, two hundred, maybe three hundred.

SPEAKER_04 27:43

Wow, really? In 1969, Dollars? Hendrix? Come on. Wow. Well, I'm just asking. I don't know. I was in the street.

SPEAKER_05 27:49

But I would I was I was I was very fortunate because I I knew a lot of the people. I mean, growing up being a prep school kid, there there was a whole circle. There was McBurney, Aaron, Lennox School, Brilly, Calhoun, Girls School, and we would all congregate in Central Park. As a matter of fact, I I was um texting JJ French the other day, and I was talking about I remember when you were still John Sigal, and I used to sit right by you while you were playing guitar to try and learn some chords. So the East Coast was an interesting you know how they always uh the movies and everything are all about the West Coast? Right. You know, the uh the beach party bingos.

SPEAKER_04 28:31

The summer of love, all that stuff.

SPEAKER_05 28:32

Yeah, all that. What we got was um Middle Egg Cowboy.

SPEAKER_00 28:36

Look, but these gals that wanna buy it, most of them are old and dignified, social registered types, you know what I mean? They can't be trotting down a Times Square to pick out the merchandise. They gotta have some kind of uh middleman. And that's where old Daniel comes in, you know what I mean? I'm walking here! I'm walking here! Get out of here. Don't worry about that. Actually, that ain't a bad way to pick up insurance, you know.

SPEAKER_05 29:11

Panic in Needle Park, which is about five blocks from my house growing up, by the way.

SPEAKER_09 29:16

The intersection at Broadway and 72nd Street on New York's west side is officially known as Sherman Square. It's called Needle Park. It is here in the neighborhood of Needle Park that drug addicts live and steal and hustle and somehow manage to exist from one day to the next.

SPEAKER_04 29:35

Yes, very good.

SPEAKER_05 29:36

But there is a lot of great stuff going on, and so that's what I want to do with this Sounds of the 60s of Notes from the 60s Substack. It's just create a time capsule of what it was like for me as a musician, knowing I was always going to be a musician, being addicted to only one thing, music, how I saw things and how things affected me being that musician. What are you doing?

SPEAKER_04 30:01

Where was Slugs? Tell me about Slugs.

SPEAKER_05 30:03

Slugs was on 3rd Street between Avenue C and D.

SPEAKER_04 30:07

Ouch, that must have been a funky neighborhood to be in.

SPEAKER_05 30:10

It was a bad neighborhood. I would lie to my parents and tell them I was going to the Fillmore, which was in a really bad neighborhood. But it wasn't as bad as Slugs.

SPEAKER_04 30:19

So what were your survival instincts at Slugs?

SPEAKER_05 30:21

The first one was thank God that across the street the uh Hells Angels had their um Oh boy their clubhouse.

SPEAKER_04 30:29

Yes, okay.

SPEAKER_05 30:30

They would make certain that no one would screw with that street.

SPEAKER_04 30:34

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 30:34

Right next to Slugs, if there are people my age who are listening to this and who did go to Slugs, do you remember that great ch uh chicken restaurant? So I'm sitting in Slugs one night watching uh Rasan Roland Kirk. Wow. And who sits down next to me with a you know his chicken? Ornette Coleman in the table right next to me. Now the thing is the chicken tasted great, but when you're not eating it, it really smells. And you know, you go, Ornette, could you please? You know. But it was such a great club because you got to see all these guys that were, some of them in the mainstream, who were working out their avant-garde stuff here. Interesting. One of my favorite bassists back there is a guy you probably remember, Cecil McBee.

SPEAKER_04 31:21

Oh, yes, of course.

SPEAKER_05 31:23

He was in a group with Charles Tolliver and Stanley Cowell called Music Incorporated. Wow. And it was incredible. Did you ever see Faro Sanders?

SPEAKER_04 31:32

Oh, yeah? Okay.

SPEAKER_05 31:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 31:33

Did you did you ever see Faro Sanders?

SPEAKER_05 31:35

Yes, I did.

SPEAKER_04 31:36

Oh, fascinating. Was that around the time of uh The Creator Has a Master Plan?

SPEAKER_05 31:40

Yeah, yeah, but the band that he had with him did not have Leon Thomas? Yeah. And the other thing about um Farrow in in relation to me was one of his big records Sonny Shiraque played on.

SPEAKER_04 31:51

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 31:52

So I had a connection to uh Farrow from a whole different thing.

SPEAKER_04 31:55

Fascinating. And what were some of the other bands you saw at Slug?

SPEAKER_05 31:59

Let's see. So Elvin Jones there.

SPEAKER_04 32:01

Okay. Well what did it cost to get in Slug?

SPEAKER_05 32:03

Oh gosh. Could have been like four bucks, five bucks. It really wasn't much. But it was so worth it. It was such a dive.

SPEAKER_04 32:11

Yeah. My similar experience is with 55 grand in the 1980s, which was a Joe Sentney type place. You know, I saw Jocko there, Mike Stern, you'd see Miles Davis sitting in the audience. A lot of the um the Letterman band used to play there all the time. You used to see Richard T there, Eric Gale, all those guys. And I didn't realize they were selling coke cocaine over the bar. And one of the nights I wasn't there, it got busted, and it was on the front page of the post in the Daily News. I don't remember it busted in easy. I was like, oh my god, thank God I wasn't there that night. Now it's a Mexican restaurant, 55 grand.

SPEAKER_05 32:49

What was the name of that club that was on Christopher Street between 7th Avenue and the 2015?

SPEAKER_04 32:54

I used to go there too. I saw Jocko there, uh 55 grand. Yeah, it's still there. Yeah. It's very Joe sent me as well. You never see it advertised. Of course, we don't have things like newspapers or magazines anymore with advertisements in them.

SPEAKER_05 33:08

I bet that was still in the uh Village Voice um club section.

SPEAKER_04 33:13

Of course it was. Yeah, 55 Christopher, yes. Yeah, matter of fact, I saw Jocko when he was down and out there, and I had friends come from out of town who wanted to see Jocko, and I said, You're gonna be very disappointed.

SPEAKER_05 33:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 33:24

Jocko came in with no bass, and I think we had to go out and find him a bass. So uh but still a great club. I saw Richard Bon in there, I saw a lot of artists.

SPEAKER_05 33:31

What's interesting, we you went through the rock thing a little later than I did. You also had fusion right along with it.

SPEAKER_04 33:37

Yeah, so and that's a thing that I you know, and you can give uh you go back to the 60s with Bill Graham putting putting jazz acts on stage with Fillmore and introducing audiences to jazz acts because to me that was natural, it was no big deal to go see Return to Forever and the Ramones in the same week because it was just about good music, and that's something that Mr. Graham certainly that was his ethos, and that's why the filmmore was not only so successful, it was also very influential.

SPEAKER_05 34:07

When you're a musician or an aspiring musician, going to the film or was going for your college education.

SPEAKER_04 34:14

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 34:14

But even if you're and I'll tell you something else, I I really truly believe that a number of the earlier prog rock bands were very influential for me, and I'm sure a lot of folks uh just like me to get into fusion. Oh, absolutely. Not a far cry to go from King Crimson to Mahavishnu Orchestra.

SPEAKER_04 34:32

Exactly. Absolutely right. King Crimson definitely had a jazzier side to them, whereas Jethro Talmor had more folky and classical. But they also had a jazz side to them as well. Their first records were very jazz.

SPEAKER_05 34:44

Those first two records were brilliant.

SPEAKER_04 34:46

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 34:47

But then again, they also had Mick Abrahams as a guitarist, so that was.

SPEAKER_04 34:54

Ian Anderson had talented bands, talented guys. His of course, his lieutenant was Martin Barr, who was still trying to get on the show. Yeah. Talk to him about that.

SPEAKER_05 35:03

But yeah, so truly, you know, if we if we really go back to it, the Beatles were the perfect foil. And you know, I was listening to all my loving today um as I was driving. How comfortable is it for people who grew up with the Everly brothers to listen to the Beatles?

SPEAKER_04 35:19

Yes, right, there's definitely a correlation there. Yeah, yeah. Sywell was mentioning in his book, he really wasn't that tuned into the Beatles because he was a jazz snob, he was a studio player, and of course you guys worked a lot for a lot of the same contractors. Right. But uh he got more into the Beatles when he started working with Wings, and as a matter of fact, when he went for the McCartney audition, he gave him Ringo. And that's what McCartney appreciated.

SPEAKER_05 35:46

Yeah, well what's interesting too, you know, you were saying about session work and stuff. I think people my age who did do session work, like Neil Grossman, Neil Jason, we were the change from studio cats being jazz cats who read music to the few at that time rock musicians who could read music.

SPEAKER_04 36:11

Right. Did you think were were ja were the jazz players that you saw that were left over, were they struggling with rock music?

SPEAKER_05 36:18

No. The studio was still a big time thing because you there were no drum machines, there were no synthesizers. You needed the horns.

SPEAKER_04 36:27

Right, okay.

SPEAKER_05 36:28

So so they weren't struggling.

SPEAKER_04 36:30

Well, you would think a horn player would be sort of jazz well, if you want horns, you want a jazzy aesthetic to your recording. But what about the thing?

SPEAKER_05 36:37

Yeah, but I'll tell you something about horns that that that's a very funny story. Tell me. I know Hecht of the Uptown Horns and I have been fast friends for over fifty-five years or so. I remember when I started getting work, you know, I was subbing for Will and doing all this kind of stuff.

SPEAKER_04 36:54

We'll leave for those of you listening.

SPEAKER_05 36:56

The sometimes the phone calls I get from Arno were, I don't know, man, I'm just not getting anywhere. And I remember saying to him one night on the phone, I said, Well, listen, I get the session work because you need me at the beginning. You're the sweetener on top, but don't worry. I know something good's gonna happen for you. Robert Plant, the Stones, Lou Reed. I mean, that guy's been playing with everybody. God bless him.

SPEAKER_04 37:22

They were the go-to. And uh, you have to say also that the the Uptown Horns, they also had the they had a show business look. They had four cool guys, they had that um Blues Brothers look.

SPEAKER_05 37:34

As a matter of fact, I remember when when uh we were doing a show. Um actually Arno called me to play with John Parr for uh an MTV special where we were doing uh American Anthem, which was a movie that uh John Parr wrote the theme song to. So I had to learn, you know, say no most fire, naughty naughty. And when we were on stage, he had the horns like do this like parade around, and and the guys, you know, were natural showmen.

SPEAKER_04 38:04

Well, saxophone players you had to walk the bar, right? That was part of their representation.

SPEAKER_05 38:07

Exactly. I wish I could find that on uh YouTube, but I don't think it's there.

SPEAKER_04 38:11

Yeah, it's gotta be in somebody's archives. But yes, the horn players obviously I think again in the studio. I wonder how the drummers well, I guess these guys were so dexterous that they could cop any style pretty much.

SPEAKER_05 38:22

Yeah, I think so.

SPEAKER_04 38:23

Yeah, I mean, look at you know, look at Hal Blaine, the wrecking crew, and all those people, they were hardcore jazz guys.

SPEAKER_05 38:28

Yeah, well, think Denny Saiwell, Rick Murata was a session cat. He also lived in the building I was growing up in, and I'd see them parade out with their drums. Uh so yeah, I but more importantly, we can bemoan the fact that there's a hell of a lot more work.

SPEAKER_04 38:43

Different times.

SPEAKER_05 38:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 38:45

The analog era, yeah. So there we go. I'll write notes from the sixties. We look forward to the next installation. David, let us do the plugs.

SPEAKER_05 38:53

That is a good thing.

SPEAKER_04 38:55

It's pluggery time. Notes of an artist can be heard live on internet radio every Monday night at 8 p.m. Eastern time. Just log into www.signusradio.com or download the Cygnus Radio app on the digital device of your choice. And we have some dubious digital devices which we won't mention on the air.

SPEAKER_05 39:13

Gotta get those batteries.

SPEAKER_04 39:14

Gotta get those batteries. Notes of an artist podcast is streaming right now on Apple, Amazon, BuzzSprout, Spotify, YouTube music, and wherever podcasts are propagated. You can listen to Notes from an Artist anytime on your own time. Boy, the ratings for Notes from an Artist, David, through the roof. Listen notes, race notes from an artist among the top 9% of all registered 3.2 million podcasts. Hip hip array for us. David, how many countries is Notes from an Artist hurting?

SPEAKER_05 39:39

Well, first of all, I gotta tell you, my thumbs are so sore from liking our stuff thousands of times. You need to start doing this so I can get a break, you know.

SPEAKER_04 39:50

How many countries, David?

SPEAKER_05 39:51

We're in 150 countries. We're in 2,376 cities, towns, villages, hamlets, brothels, you name it. Territories. The last four, or the most recent four, newcomers to our show.

SPEAKER_04 40:07

Yes, we're, David. Let's the drumroll.

SPEAKER_05 40:09

Charlestown, West Virginia.

SPEAKER_04 40:11

Wow, that's a nice, that's a nice town.

SPEAKER_05 40:13

Yeah, Riverdale, Georgia. I will mangle this. Steinkur Travelov. I would assume that's gotta be somewhere in the Nordic land.

SPEAKER_04 40:22

Steinkur Stravilov. I love that place.

SPEAKER_05 40:25

Yeah. And what would make that even more um true to form, it's it's it's uh a Jeff Berlin interview that we did million years ago.

SPEAKER_04 40:33

Oh goodness.

SPEAKER_05 40:34

And how about this? East Finchley Barnett, which is somewhere in England because it's of the most recent Joel MacGyver Mark Brown thing that we did a few weeks ago.

SPEAKER_04 40:46

There's East Finchley, I know, but West Finchley had it.

SPEAKER_05 40:48

We've had two down lows in Malaysia. You know, it reminds me of an Anison cur commercial. I think of Malaysia like I do neuralgia.

SPEAKER_06 40:56

Don't you think it needs a little salt? Mother, please. I'd rather do it myself. Control yourself. Sure you have a headache, you're tense, irritable, but don't take it out on her.

SPEAKER_10 41:10

You need anison for fast relief. The big difference in anison makes a big difference in the way you feel. Minutes after taking anison, headache pain's gone. So tension's gone, irritability's gone, you're in control again. You see, anison is like a doctor's prescription. That is a combination of ingredients, extra ingredients, missing from aspirin, still missing with buffering. Extra ingredients most doctors recommend to relieve pain, to relax tension, soothe irritability. You get fast, more complete headache relief. You keep control. Yes, the big difference in anison makes a big difference in the way you feel.

SPEAKER_04 41:49

How about the sunken city of Atlantis?

SPEAKER_05 41:50

How many have how many have uh you know what? They are trying to use solar energy to try and be able to generate power for their um iPods.

SPEAKER_04 42:01

Is that right? Well, hopefully we can communicate telekinetically in the next few years. David, let's talk about follow notes from an artist on YouTube because we do have a YouTube page, notes from an artist. We can watch historic interviews with some of our past guests, such as Stephen Vi, Ja Wobble, Ron Carter, Bill Wyman of the Rolling Stones, Phil Manzanera, who's in tip-top shape at his age, Steve Hackett, Richard Thompson, Rudy Cesarzo, Joe Linterna, Tony Levin, Trey Gunn of King Crimson, Glenn Madlock of the Sex Pistols, Lenny Kay from the Patty Smith group, and one more guy from a Prague rock band of the 70s. Do you remember who he was, David?

SPEAKER_05 42:37

Ian Enerson.

SPEAKER_04 42:41

Visit Notesman Artist's website, www.notesmanartist.com. Catch up on all our latest activities, and let's talk about our playlist, David. What are you putting on the radio for these people tonight?

SPEAKER_05 42:53

Well, once again, we're gonna have four Beatles songs, but I'm not gonna tell you what they are. Okay, because not only don't I know what they is, they're gonna be more obscure than normal.

SPEAKER_04 43:04

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 43:05

From there, I'm gonna play some Dave Clark 5. I'm gonna actually give you a sort of a musical history lesson. Dave Clark 5 Searchers, Animals, Spencer Davis group, the Walker Brothers. And incidentally, the last Walker brother, Gary Walker, I don't remember what I think it was Lions was his last name, passed away last week.

SPEAKER_04 43:26

Wow, and again, they were a big deal, very influential in the Right, right.

SPEAKER_05 43:31

As a matter of fact, I do not believe, and I would love to get David Sylvian on the show. I do not believe there would be a David Sylvian without Walker Brothers.

SPEAKER_04 43:39

Right, right, right, yeah. Alrighty, folks. I'm Tomazzo Semioli. David Sylvia. I am David C.

SPEAKER_05 43:46

Gross. Have a good night. Bye-bye. See you next week.

SPEAKER_04 43:51

Bye-bye. I must ask you, uh this might be too personal, but uh we Eight inches.

SPEAKER_07 43:56

We in the criminal justice system. Sexually based offenses are considered especially heinous. In New York City, the dedicated detectives who investigate these vicious felonies are members of an elite squad known as the Special Victims Unit. These are their stories.

SPEAKER_03 44:12

I did not have sexual relations with that woman.

SPEAKER_05 44:33

How dare you call yourselves professional?

SPEAKER_02 44:35

Through unforeseen circumstances, this show will remain on the air until further notice.